The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle : MSNBCW : June 28, 2024 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive (2024)

neal katyal neal katyal guesstimates last word and you'll be hearing a lot more from neil on monday. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> did anybody last night watch the debate? >> alarmed democrats in panic

mode after joe biden appears confused and unfocused and last night's ■çpresidential debate. >> we finally beat medicare. >> we already did beat medicaid, we beat it to death. >> it was a slow start. there was no question about that but i thought it was a strong finish. >> what kind of party does that? >> it's hard to debate a liar. >> they talk about a relatively small number of people that went to the capitol and in many cases were ushered in by the police. >> mostly line, and without much fact check. >> as the debate aggressively got more and more and more manic. >> i just won two club championships. to be that you have to be quite smart. i didn't have sex with a star. >> you would think the candidate during the presidential debate said i didn't have sex with a tran 40 start was the loser of that debate. >> donald trump isn't just a convicted felon. donald trump is a ■çone-man cri wave. >> if that joe biden showed up

last night there would be no questions today. there is a recovery cath. is just going to be very challenging and rocky for the campaign. >> choice in this election is simple. donald trump will restore democracy. i will defend it. >> good evening once again. i'm stephanie ruhle. we are now 130 days away from the election and the biden campaign is trying to reset and recover from the first debates. remember, bidens team wanted this debate to put trump's campaign on the defensive, but also to highlight his lies and dangerous policies, and those things were on display at last night but they were overshadowed by ■çbidens and performance, which even he admitted was far from his best. there was a lot of reporting about how democrats and donors are sounding the alarm today and some are even talking about the idea of a different nominee. but despite all of that, president biden made a defiant return to the campaign trail

earlier today, missing voters that he will win this race. >> i know i'm not a young man, to state the obvious. well i know. folks, i don't walk as easy as i used to. i don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used to but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth. i know ■ç-- i know right from wrong. i know how to do this job. i know how to get things done. i know, like millions of americans know, when you get knocked down you get back up. >> with that, let's bring in

our friday night cap. former new york prosecutor and civil rights attorney charles coleman jr., molly john last, special correspondent for vanity fair and msnbc contributor, tim miller is your host of the bulwark podcast, the former communications director for republican jeb bush, and writer and comedian sarah cooper. you have definitely seen her videos lip-synching to the one and only donald trump. her memoir, foolish, tales of assimilatioo< determination and humiliation, is a must read. it is out now and perfect for the summer. we got a lot to cover. this feels like the longest week in the history of humanity. tim, i wanted to call you and text you last night but at the end of that debate and our coverage i needed to go to bed. joe biden had a very strong rally today. he looked better than he has looked in months. it was very different from last night. does today's performance in any way calm the panic that we've seen in the last 18 hours, come

over the democratic party? >> non-. you want to call and text me or hug me last night? because i could've used a hug. it doesn't calm my panic. it might calm some other people panic. i'm sorry to report at the top of the show ■çhow i might be in the punch bowl a little bit tonight but here's the thing -- i think joe biden was good today on the campaign trail. i think that probably assuaged the concerns of some of the base voters, the very politically active democrats who are engaged in this stuff, who are on social media and get joe biden's videos and pay attention to his rallies. but there were tens of millions of people that saw the debate last night that aren't as engaged and joe biden was already struggling. that was his weakest group. part of the reason biden wanted to have that debate today was to focus the minds of people, to remind them why they hated donald trump and he demonstrated to them that he was up for the job. and on that count it was just a

catastrophe, and from the people in my life that are casual observers of politics, i mean i'm sure like everybody else, the texts were just -- ■ç the texts were worse from people who don't pay attention to politics than it was today, my worst texts were from people who were like what is happening, is he this bad. can he recover from that? yeah, but as jen psaki said in the intro, it's going to be a big task and he's going to have to be much more vigorous and much more in everybody's face on the campaign trail than he has been, and if he's not up for that, that other conversation has to happen. >> donald trump's content, remember the actual content is important. as expected, it was chock full of lies. over 30 were counted. but is any of that going to break through given president biden's weak performance? >> it wasn't even lies. it ■ku(h insane stuff. we had h2o. the winner of this debate was

donald trump because somehow no one noticed some of the stuff he was saying. it was crazy, crazy stuff, and i actually thought, as much as it was definitely a lot of questioning, handwringing, anxiety, it was also -- donald trump has this, he's so in this right-wing media bubble that he gives these little speeches that don't at all relate to the question, and because of the way this panel was set up, this debate was moderated, it really was an ability for him to just go into a right-wing talking point and not even really ever come out. it was just like malpractice. >> but malpractice on whose part? donald trump has been doing this from the moment he enteredç politics and president biden's team agreed to these terms. so for us to say oh my gosh, it's malpractice, what was cnn

doing, they were doing what they said they would do and the onus was on president biden to counter donald trump's lies. and for the most part, he didn't. >> he was tongue-tied and i don't know, i was watching it as someone who sometimes gets tongue-tied. i definitely thought, but he has a stutter and i didn't think this was not the biden that any of us hoped to see last night, and i have seen him pull a rabbit out of the hat, and this was not that. >> sarah, what did you make of last night? >> stephanie, i got to be honest, i kind of checked out on the politics for a while, ■ç i hadn't seen biden speak in a long time and i have a lot of trolls on my social media saying how much he deteriorated, and i thought they were all exaggerating. but from the minute he stepped on the stage and he pointed to his podium as if to remind himself where he was going, i was really worried. and then when he started speaking i got -- i was shocked, and i'll be honest, i was shocked. i didn't expect that he -- i

mean it's like the training, you're not sure where it's going and even if it was going to get there, and you're not sure when, i don't know. with trump you know he's going to like. you know what he's going to say. you know he's going to repeat himself. but with biden it was just my entire body felt like it was shaking because i just had no idea what was going to happen, and not in a good way. ■ç not in a like i'm watching a movie and i can't wait to see what's going to happen. it was kind of like watching a bit of a train wreck but the choice seems to be like in november either you're going to have a president who makes you feel dead you'll be alive for a president who makes you feel alive but you'll be dead. >> charles, joe biden has, by all accounts, had some incredibly big wins, big policy wins in his presidency over the last 3 1/2 years. none of us are going to deny that he had a rough night. not 24 hours later "the new

york times" is out with an editorial titled, to serve his country, president biden should leave the race. is everyone including democrats giving up on him too quickly? it was a bad night but it was just one bad night. >> was in, stephanie, i am someone who believes you dance with the one who ■çbrought you but at the end of the day if this is the candidate that has brought the democratic party to this point, as the president, then i think you need to have a little faith. because truthfully, how do you position someone else to replace him as a candidate and say, we believe in you, we're going to give you our all, if after one poor debate they're ready to let this guy go? the thing about what democrats have been saying all along is that biden's strength, as you noted, is his record and are his accompaniments. well if you really believe that, then you've got to allow him to continue to push that and be the messenger. you find other ways to get your message out but what you don't

do is abandon the person who you claimed, who you've been selling and pushing is responsible for this incredible upturn in terms of america's economy and everything else that the biden administration ■ç has said that it has done. so either you believe in your guy to be the one to push the agenda, or to move democrats where they need to be to keep the country in a good space, or you let him go, but you can't have it both. you can't let them go and then all of a sudden try to convince the voting public that you're behind another guy who you still think that the proper choice over donald trump. what i also think this says, stephanie, which is like weird to me, is that for everything democrats have said, there is a fear that we saw not just with joe biden but around donald trump in the fact that he in some weird way is not going away. whether it is the indictments, whether it's the convictions, whether it's the impeachments, whether it's the investigations, he's someone --

he's the bad villain from a horror movie that will not die. and i think that there are people in the democratic base, after watching the debate last night, really fear a sense of fear about that, that he continues to remain a viable opponent to joe biden. so i think it's a matter of confidence. you got to be confident in your guy and you cannot dump him after one poor debate performance. >> well could today's freak out by the democratic party, could that be a sign that democrats are actually the normal, healthy group, as opposed to what we've seen with trump and the gop, that no matter what he says, no matter what he does, he's their fearless leader and they get behind him no matter what? >> well absolutely. just like that, the republican party, it's a crazy cult. donald trump is insane. just grabbing onto what molly ■ç said, i'm substantively speaking, donald trump gave the worst debate performance in presidential history last night, defending rioters.

he couldn't answer a question. just the substance, not the figure skating judging but the substance of what he said was the craziest and worst stuff that's ever been set on a presidential debate stage last night. that said, joe biden couldn't counter it. the worst performance in history, joe biden didn't have any coherent counter to donald trump's points, and charles, i'm sorry, it was not one bad night. people have been concerned about joe biden's age for months and months and months. people complain the media talks about it too much and i try not to talk about it every time i'm on but that doesn't mean i'm not concerned about it. like these concerns about joe biden's deterioration between how he presented in ■ç2020, whe he beat donald trump handily twice like a drum in two debates, and last night's dramatic. we can't pretend like it doesn't exist and so i think those conversations about joe biden is a sign that the party is healthy and it should not be waived away as like a one bad night thing. it isn't a one bad night thing.

that's not true. >> molly, we're barely 8 weeks out from the democratic convention. is that enough time that if they wanted to change direction on candidates, they can pull that off, technically? >> yeah. i mean this is a math problem here and what it looks like is if joe biden decide he doesn't want to do this, which he has to be the driver here, he has to say because otherwise the party will never go along with it, and he can endorse and we ■ç can go to a brokered convention. and that will look like democrats delegates voting. delegates democrats don't have superdelegates anymore and that's a really important point so we really could have a convention where you just have these delegates, there are a couple hundred delegates. everyone is ranked the same, waited the same. they tend to be biden supporters so biden may have put some of these people in. they may have been loyal to him, which is really why you need biden to be the driver here, and he probably -- i mean in my mind, how this might go

is that he would endorse his vice president, then she would go to a brokered convention and the delegates would vote. and while this is not necessarily an ideal scenario, it is happened before. it will likely happen again and ultimately it is a decision being made by the democrats during a brokered convention. there is historibql precedent. >> sarah, we are putting our candidates in a position that it is all about performance. so do we realize that performing, that's actually donald trump's superpower? it's the one thing he's actually really good at. >> yeah. i mean on the one hand i'm kind of excited that we're judging men on their tone for once. we usually just judge women on their tone but on the other hand, it makes me wish ai could figure out how to make a president because the fact of the matter is we know what the country wants. we know 70% of the country wants a woman to have a right

to choose. why can't we just read that in to an ai robot president and the a irobot president makes the laws? i don't know, i'm very confused about why we are deciding on a president based on personality culture wars. but maybe i just don't really understand politics. i mean i understand it but i don't like it. >> tim, what's your biggest concern? >> your face looks distressed tonight so now as biden and the democrats are trying to regroup and team trump wants to capitalize on this, what is your biggest fear? >> my biggest fear is that the democrats circled the wagons around joe biden right now and joe biden doesn't have the capability to make a case against donald trump and to make a case to the undecided american voters out there that he's up for the job. if you look at the polls, people are like let's dismissedç

the polls, well in the same polls in pennsylvania, bob casey the democrat is winning for senate. joe biden is losing. in wisconsin tammy baldwin is winning. joe biden is losing. in arizona ruben gallego is winning, joe biden is losing. why is that? i've been wondering that. why is that? it's weird that there are that many split ticket voters. we saw the answer last night. there's a certain percentage of voters that would be happy to go for a normal democrat, that are concerned about joe biden's age. there may be some other issues, maybe inflation, some weird stuff with trump being a celebrity. the main thrust of it, the main difference between joe biden and bob casey is their age, so we have to be honest about this and if joe biden is up for it, he's going to prove it and that's why they had this debate in june. i feel like i'm taking crazy pills, so don't be negative, it's just one night. don't be negative, ■çit's just one night. the whole point of why joe biden wanted to have this debate in june was to prove he was up for it because he knew that was his biggest hurdle, and it did the opposite. so we need to grapple with that

and maybe that means rallying around joe biden because donald trump is such a threat. i'll be the first one to do it if that's necessary. but before we do that shouldn't we at least talk about it, you know? should we think about what the other alternatives might be or at least make sure that joe biden understands what he's going to do or his campaign team understands what is going to do? that's the part that's frustrating. >> while the audience grapples with what you just said, we're going to let them take a walk, take a breath and get a co*cktail. >> i'm so sorry. >> a reminder of why elections matter. we are going to break down today's supreme court rulings in a big reveal coming in trump's immunity case on monday. and ■çlater, how women's ncaa basketball captured the nation's attention. i'll share some of my very special conversation from aspen with two legendary coaches when our nightcap on the 11th hour continues. continues. eight months pregnant.. that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up.

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i just hours just hours after the debate wrapped up, we got another reminder that elections have serious ■çconsequences. today the supreme court's conservative majority overturned a 40-year-old decision that helped federal agencies make rules, rules that protect clean air and water, that keep food safe and that keith let out of our toys. the court also undermined a key tool that prosecutors have been using in the january 6 cases,

meaning that charges for some rioters could actually go away. monday is the courts last day and the justices still have to decide whether donald trump is immune from prosecution for his attempt to overturn the last election. but look at what this court has already been to impact americans in their everyday lives, and just member who is responsible for the conservative supermajority -- donald j trump, who could have more chances to appoint far right justices if he wins in november. our nightcap is still with ■çus charles, you know i'm turning to you first. this difference on federal agencies is known as the chevron decision. what does it mean for the average american? why should we care? >> this is a very important decision that stood for basically 40-plus years, that allowed for the courts to take the interpretation from federal agencies where the law was ambiguous. so for example, when you're talking about things like fishing and hunting and other regulations that may have

seemed ambiguous under the law, they allow the people who deal with these most, the federal agencies who were responsible for understanding these areas most, to interpret what the law should be. in this case, when they have now overruled chevron, what they've done is they've taken that power away from these federal agencies that deal with these issues every day, and they have siphoned this power and giving it ■çto the judiciar this is a very, very big deal because not only was chevron long-standing to what we are seeing here, stephanie, is a complete overhaul of how the judiciary is supposed to operate with respect to its power and what's enumerated to it. this supreme court has been on an unprecedented level of a power grab and they continue to remind americans that given the current structure, there is nothing that you can do about it. so when you talk about elections and their consequences, this is a prime example, because for as long as these decisions are made or can be made by the supermajority, they're going to continue to do so in such a way that not only

gives power to the supreme court but to the entire judiciary, as well, and that's what we saw. >> conservatives often rail against activist judoer, but if judges suddenly have all this power over regulations, won't there be a whole lot of activist judges in our future? >> yes. i think they were tired of that talking point about caring about the debt and tort reform. remember when republicans, we used to care about court reform and now every law is like okay, if a woman wants to get an abortion, someone can sue her to stop her from getting an abortion. that's what the texas bounty law is so they've retired all their principles on this front. it will lead to more activist judges and i think there's going to be a lot of unintended consequences from this, that maybe, hopefully in the same way that dobbs has, accrues to the democrats benefit once they see just the downside of this. one more thing, just going back to the stakes of this discussion, ■çthe court, so

animated about beating donald trump this time, progressive listeners, if donald trump gets back in he could get two more supreme court appointees, so a bare majority of supreme court justices for four decades would be donald trump appointees. that should alarm folks and i think that also speaks to the stakes and making sure that the democrats are putting the most aggressive campaign forward that they can. >> molly, does this court have sorted any respect for precedent after this decision? and if not, what should people be genuinely worried about next, contraception, gay marriage, restriction on medical abortion? >> what's interesting is earlier in the term they kicked the can on a bunch of issues that they could've made more ■' the mifepristone, they kicked it out on standing. certain cases that they could've said crazy stuff about, they were like, we'll just wait until after the

election. not quite that but there certainly was a feeling things moved around. there will be more of this, right? this is heritage foundation project 2025 with less stuff. script the administrative state, make it so the epa can't do epa stuff. make it so the department of education can't do education stuff. make it so that this is the sort of dream of the harlan crow types and you know there's a reason thomas and alito are smiling, it's because they are remaking this country in this heritage foundation image. >> there are so many high- profile cases this term. do you think everyday americans are paying attention to how ■ç this supreme court is changing things? >> i don't think so and i think it's because it feels very complicated, even this fisheries discussion. i was trying to understand it and i couldn't really get my head around it.

it's about -- i think what tim was saying, it's about how 2016 really changed things in a way that it wasn't just trump being elected. it was the fact that he got to remake this court and it just feels like -- i think it was roseann where you find out the father had been dead for years. it feels like the country died sorted in 2016 and i heard biden say last night, you know, he's going to make sure that roe v wade gets back in and it's like, you're president now, you can't do that now. you don't have the power to do that now and i think that's why people were so frustrated. remember when roe v wade was overturned and i cried, and a lot of people cried. i feel like i'd been fighting that happening for 20 years and then it finally happened, and people just kind of lost a lot of hope when that happened. >> charles, let's talk about this ruling on january 6, defendants, what does it mean? >> what they did in this case

was try and take a really weird and byzantine route to essentially narrow the definition of what it is to have an official proceeding. at the core of this case was the question of whether -- what was taking place, the certification of votes counted as an official proceeding for the purposes of obstruction. and obstruction is one of the things thit!many january sixers have been charged with including the president, and the key with that charge is basically an official proceeding. so what the supreme court decided was, well, as the law is written, the official proceeding that was taking place with respect to the certification of votes on were sixth isn't what was meant by the actual law. this does get kicked back down and allows the department of justice to take a different route to charge people with obstruction under this new interpretation of the law, but it also delays a number of those prosecutions and jumbles

up those people who have already been convicted of obstruction because of the previous interpretation. we know that donald trump has also been charged with obstruction at some point and what we know because of this is that it's going to require a recalibration for prosecutors to think about how çdo they go about moving in, given this narrow interpretation of the law that the supreme court has set forth. >> molly, were you surprised to see justice jackson joining the conservatives and the majority on this jan six decision? >> you know, yes and no. she's very smart and this is a very -- i mean there is so much sort of mental gymnastics with all of these decisions. so the answer is i don't know. this court every day breaks my heart in 1 million different ways. so i have to believe that justice jackson, it had some kind of -- that there was a sort of larger purpose here. but yes, it's just so -- this

is so heart! think about crime and stuff and when you think about how -- biden is saying that he would be able to appoint two justices if he gets reelected. if that is possible, if that happens, there's a chance that we could have a more normal supreme court. but it's also possible we live like this for many, many years, and the consequences of it for climate, they're in calculative bull. >> it's time for everybody to get another drink. tim did it last segment and molly did it this time everyone is staying right here. get a drink take a walk to take a deep breath but come back because when we return it is time for mvps. it is such a week. i cannot wait to hear this group has chosen as their big names when the 11th hour and the nightcap continue. nue. ♪♪ citi's industry leading global payments

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our nightcap our nightcap is still with us and it is time for our mvp lapse of the week. tim, i don't even know yours but i have a sinking feeling you're going to be our debbie downer tonight, aren't you? >> i was going to give it to donald trump. yeah, great. donald trump won. let's never have the ■çmvp agai everybody in the pro-democracy coalition but i've said already

too much so i'm giving it and i hear you are doing some women's college basketball tonight so i'm giving it to my lsu tiger girl flow jeh johnson. she's got a new rap album coming out. we love flow jeh johnson from louisiana. sorry, trump. giving it to flow j instead. >> i got time for that, you are no longer the debbie downer. molly, who is your pick? >> the commission on presidential debates, you don't miss them until they're gone, right? when they brokered this debate with cnn i thought who even needs them. leave been doing this for basically for a long time, decades, and i thought oh well they don't matter anymore and it's like watching that star trek thing that we watched in the hermetically ■wealed room where there was no applause and they were staring at each other. like bring back the commission on presidential debates. we need you. >> molly john fast was not the

debbie downer but she just proved herself to be the nerd of the night. commission on presidential debates. sarah, excite us. who's your pick? >> my pick is hillary clinton because i was watching the debate last night, because i was watching it and i was listening to biden. and for some reason it just came out of my mouth, i miss hillary clinton, and i think it's because it's the last -- she's the only person i think you has been able to soundly beat trumpian a debates. i remember him being tongue- tied with her and i wanted to see that last night, and ■çi didn't, so it just made me miss her. >> there you go. all right. mr. coleman, who is your pick this evening? >> the 55th pick in the nba draft was los angeles lakers selected ronnie james, who is the son and firstborn of lebron james. no one can imagine what it is to step into the limelight with a father named lebron james, other than michael jordan son, and for him to do the same

thing that his father does, i.e. play the game of basketball, the level of criticism that he is under and will continue to be under is just gargantuan. so i applaud him for deciding to say, you know what, forget it, i'm going to pursue my dreams and do what i want to do and i'm not ■çgoing to worry about these critics, and here he is now entering the nba. he knows that the lights are bright. he knows that the cameras are hot but he still is up to the challenge so now we will get to witness the first father and son duo to ever play in the nba together. i wish him all the luck. he's going to need it but my mvp is brawny james. >> that is awesome. charles, it was less than two years ago that brawny collapsed with a heart condition and didn't know if he would ever play again, and now, here he is fulfilling not just his dream but lebron james's lifelong dream. how great is it for him? >> really big day for the james family and i wish them all the

best. >> well you know what, guys, i was afraid we were not going to have a sterling, exciting, happy mvp tonight but charles coleman, you pulled us throug&. i want to thank you all for being here. this has been the longest week ever. thank you all, charles coleman jr., molly john fast, tim cooper and sarah cooper on your first visit to the nightcap. we love having you. we are going to stay on this college basketball. you know women's college hoops shattered viewership records this year. i spoke with two of the most influential coaches about what it took to score that when when the 11th hour continues. s. boring is the unsung catalyst for bold. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring

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get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood i'm not i'm not letting you go tonight without a little something special. this past week i had the privilege of hosting several panels at the aspen ideas festival in colorado and i wanted to share a bit of one of the really, really awesome ones. i sat down with two legendary college basketball coaches, geno auriemma of uconn and lsu's can mulkey. we talked about the amazing year for women's college basketball and what comes next. watch this. >> how would you describe the caitlin clark effect? >> well i give people their dues. her institution where she went to school loves women's basketball.

connecticut loves women's basketball. baylor loved women's basketball. lsu loves women's basketball. and i think those fans are going to always follow their players. and she plqvq" in two national championship games and brought attention to our game. i think angel reese brought attention to our game. i just -- it's a good thing. i don't think there's anything bad. i don't like what they do to angel reese from a social media perspective. but angel can handle it. but i just think that it's a good thing. there's nothing wrong with it. i think those two players in particular know they're not the best players in the wnba right now, but they're going to be hall of famers someday. so whatever you can bring to the table as a rookie, bring it, and i think they brought a ç lot of attention. >> do you regret lsu embracing lil and sort of where we are?

>> i thought they had a vision of what was to come when nobody else did. i thought everybody else was kind of reluctant and fighting it and i just thought the people in charge at lsu said you can fight it all you want, it's coming and you better embrace it. >> gino? >> i think it's great that the players have an opportunity to earn money playing. i really do. >> it doesn't get harder to coach them? >> no. >> no. >> it doesn't get harder to coach them to the extent that like, well this kids making money so now they're not going to listen to you. that doesn't exist. but think about what■ç nil mean what it was supposed to mean. name, image and likeness. what does that mean? that means i can go to school and if the school sells jerseys with my name on it, i should

get a piece of that. i'm in. if a school puts me on the ticket brochure, i'm in. refrigerator stickers with my face on it, i get paid for that. i want to do a car commercial for a car company. i'm in on that. i think they should get all that. remember, name, image and likeness. that's what it means. instead, what it means now is now it's legal. so now it's legal for me to say i'll give you $500,000 to complete for me. so is that really name, image and likeness? >> no. >> no. >> no, so whatever it was meant to be, ■çthese adults, they don understand is generally speaking, coaches are just criminals who haven't gone to jail yet. so by the time the ncaa finished writing this, they'd already figured out how to take advantage of this new rule. c? so there has to be some kind of guard rails put on this but me, i'm in favor of them getting paid. i hate the transfer portal.

i don't hate that they're adding paid. i hate that they can just get up and leave anytime they want but then you know what they say, coaches can leave whenever they want and go coach at another school. really? i have a $5 million buyout, so kid, you want to complete for me, you leave after one year, you owe me this. no, i also the ncaa . then what the hell are we talking about here? what's right for me isn't ■çrig for you? so i'm all in favor of them getting paid. i just hate the fact that there's no obligation. you signed no contract when you come into play for kim or myself or lsu or connecticut or any other school, for that matter. >> you don't like to say that you coach women's basketball. >> i don't. i don't like it. i don't like when people separate it, like a coach women's basketball and you coach men's basketball. i coach basketball. if you coach swimming you coach swimming. >> yeah, but swimming is a coed team. that's why you don't say --

>> i'm saying men's swim and or women's swimming? they both got to jump in the pool and they both got to get from here to there real fast. so i coach basketball. okay, whether it's women's basketball over here, women's basketball over here, they've got to be able to get the ball from here to there real fast and put it in the basket. ■ç and to me, you can't do it differently, and to me, the game is the game and it needs to be coached a certain way. and i hate the fact that too many coaches for too many years did coach their players like they were girls in high school and women's basketball in college. disrespectful. that's disrespectful to the players themselves. if you were a guy -- and i coached men and i had three pros on my team when i coached voice. it's disrespectful to say, think of it this way, you have a son and a daughter and you want them to be olympic swimmers. you take them to the best swimming coach in america and

he takes your son, frozen at the end of the pool and goes swim■ç or drown, then he takes her daughter by the hand, come on, sweetheart, and you go down and walk into the little pool, okay, like we're going to start right here. that's disrespectful. if we're going to coach a got to be an olympian this way, then you need to coach a girl to be an olympian that way. otherwise you're being disrespectful. >> and i chime in? >> i grew up in a society -- i grew up in a society in italy where when all the guys were at war, the women ran the operation, so anybody that tells me women can't handle the toughness and the mental toughness and the physical toughness, and the demands that guys can handle, that's just a bunch of crap that guys have said for years to create that narrative. i don't buy it. >> gino, i'll say what you really want to say. it's sexist. anybody disagree with that? if you followed my press conference in the playoffs, he might be in here, for all i ■ç

know, just coach. just coach the game. i have a son and i have a daughter. i'm going to teach them the same way, and just go coach the game and that's what he's trying to say, but he's doing a really nice job as a male not to say it, right? >> yeah. you have to have a certain accent to be able to say that. >> look, i've learned this -- gino and i have been around quite a wild. gino is a little bit older than i am. i've learned this. gino is from the east coast, right? i'm from the south. he can say the exact same thing and i can say it and who's going to get attacked? here i am. >> what, you're out of your mind? >> what is that about? >> you're out of ■çyour mind. you're so wrong. >> source ports, that's what it is. >> if you're a guy today and you say anything about women or women's basketball that is in

part of the mainstream, your pecker is in big trouble, so i don't want to hear anything about that. >> it's like cursing with an english accent. >> gino, let me say this, and i mean this, guys, we lost some of the best in this business, the people i looked up to, and gino really -- 11? who wins 11 championships? it's hard. it's hard. and so to be on the stage with him is an honor for me. it really is. because -- and we go at it. we go at there's a respect there . i hear it ■çall the time. what do you think of gino? and i think a lot of women really want me to answer a certain way. they're shocked when i answer it a different way. i respect the hell out of what he has done and i've said this and i'll say it to everybody, if connecticut had big-time football, this son of a gun would be making more money than hurley and anybody in the men's game, and it's deserving.

he should. 11. and for him to stay is committed to an institution as long as he has, kudos to gino. and i mean that. i really mean that because he and i have never been on a stage together like this. maybe a final four two. i'd have to think about it. but it was an honor for me to be asked because i wanted to hear what he says. i took up his press conferences when we play against each other but he's seen a hell ■ç of a lo more than i have. i've played the game a long time and have witnessed a lot but you're looking at two dinosaurs here, really. >> a couple in the audience, too. >> yeah. >> you know who you are. you know i'm sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt, but you know when you are a dinosaur, you can say whatever you want to say because you really don't care what the blowback is going to be, because you've already been hit so many times with so many different things that you get to a point where like, you

know, i'm going to say it and i'm the messenger. you don't like it, that's your problem, not mine. >> it's what makes james carville the number one cable tv news guest. >> why do you think he's here, stephanie? you came to see me. that's a louisiana boy through and three. hell, we got half of the cajuns in here, you know? ■ç yeah. >> big thanks again to gino and kim and we'll be right back with more. ore. bu t home is al. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

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